I think students absorb far more than we give them credit for because there is just so much that we can't see. I often think that as teachers we are just planting seeds, and some of those seeds grow quick and some take a while to shoot up.
I really appreciate the care and seriousness you bring to this work, especially the way you listen to students and treat grading conversations as moments for reflection rather than judgment. There’s a lot here that clearly moves beyond the worst transactional habits of schooling.
One distinction I keep returning to in my own thinking is the difference between responding well to instruction and learning itself. When students say the grading system supported their learning, I find myself wondering how tightly that learning is still tethered to what the course defined in advance as “the learning.” In other words, if a student developed deep understanding or insight related to the domain but outside the syllabus or prescribed assignments, would that learning have had a place to be recognized within the grading conversation?
That’s not a criticism so much as a structural question. Even thoughtful, humane grading systems often remain anchored to teacher-defined outcomes, simply because the institution requires grades as tokens of value. You acknowledge that tension yourself in the final section, and I hear real sincerity in your desire for students to move beyond a purely transactional view of school.
What my work with FILL (Facilitated Interdependent Language Learning) has surfaced for me is that there are ways—slow, imperfect, and often constrained by the system—to open the door a bit further. Ways to let learners propose evidence of learning rather than only respond to predefined evidence requests. Ways to shift grading conversations from “How well did I meet the course expectations?” to “What did I actually learn, and how can I show it?”
I don’t think this is about doing more, or even doing things “better.” It’s about noticing where the structure itself quietly limits what can count as learning, even in classrooms that are deeply student-centered. Your reflection already points in that direction. I see this as part of the same ongoing inquiry rather than a departure from it.
I love the idea of learners proposing evidence of learning that go outside of instructor-defined outcomes. I use SBG rather than ungrading in my large (200+) classes, but there are always some students for whom SBG *still* does not lead to "fair" outcomes. Your comment makes me think about whether I could offer grade conferences near the end of term to open up space for students like this to "show it" on their own terms.
The "rub" is always the reality of the students for whom the structure just doesn't work the way it should. While we can always average the grades of students in a class, there are no "average" students. Each is unique in terms of background, how they work, how quickly they grasp a concept, etc. We have to use systems that allow for each student, not just those who fell in the range of "average".
Thanks for this! I do try to honor learning that goes beyond the official course outcomes, but I think I could do a better job of making that explicit to the students. It's a tough balance between giving them a framework to think about their learning and also encouraging them to move beyond that framework. One question I find really helpful here is "What's one thing you learned in this class that surprised you?" https://emilypittsdonahoe.substack.com/p/fighting-the-end-of-semester-blues
Thank you for this. I found the last part especially interesting, because what you describe doing on the last day of class is something that I've taken to doing on the first day of class, but with a bit of a twist. (For context, I teach writing at a technical community college.)
After welcoming everyone and going around the room for a first round of introductions, I explain that the primary purpose of our class is to develop our ability to use writing as a path of meaningful learning. Then I ask students what meaningfully learning would look like to them and we map out their responses on the board. Common themes that typically emerge include:
- Personal growth
- Developing a deep understanding
- Being able to connect with what you're learning
- Being able to put what you're learning into practice
- Being able to teach what you learn
- Having choice/freedom
- Having a teacher who cares about their learning
- Not being overly rushed or scattered
- Not being overly pressured or judged
While there's always variation within the group, there tends to be a pretty strong core of shared values and students will frequently speak up to affirm what others have said.
My next step is to explain how the course is designed to help us put that vision into practice, including keeping the focus on learning over grading. (Happy to provide more details if anyone is interested.) I've been interested, and heartened, to see that most of my students are really ready for this, and I feel like it's become a really positive way for us to start the semester.
I think students absorb far more than we give them credit for because there is just so much that we can't see. I often think that as teachers we are just planting seeds, and some of those seeds grow quick and some take a while to shoot up.
I really like that metaphor. It's always helpful to remember at the end of a tough semester, too...
Love this perspective.
I really appreciate the care and seriousness you bring to this work, especially the way you listen to students and treat grading conversations as moments for reflection rather than judgment. There’s a lot here that clearly moves beyond the worst transactional habits of schooling.
One distinction I keep returning to in my own thinking is the difference between responding well to instruction and learning itself. When students say the grading system supported their learning, I find myself wondering how tightly that learning is still tethered to what the course defined in advance as “the learning.” In other words, if a student developed deep understanding or insight related to the domain but outside the syllabus or prescribed assignments, would that learning have had a place to be recognized within the grading conversation?
That’s not a criticism so much as a structural question. Even thoughtful, humane grading systems often remain anchored to teacher-defined outcomes, simply because the institution requires grades as tokens of value. You acknowledge that tension yourself in the final section, and I hear real sincerity in your desire for students to move beyond a purely transactional view of school.
What my work with FILL (Facilitated Interdependent Language Learning) has surfaced for me is that there are ways—slow, imperfect, and often constrained by the system—to open the door a bit further. Ways to let learners propose evidence of learning rather than only respond to predefined evidence requests. Ways to shift grading conversations from “How well did I meet the course expectations?” to “What did I actually learn, and how can I show it?”
I don’t think this is about doing more, or even doing things “better.” It’s about noticing where the structure itself quietly limits what can count as learning, even in classrooms that are deeply student-centered. Your reflection already points in that direction. I see this as part of the same ongoing inquiry rather than a departure from it.
I love the idea of learners proposing evidence of learning that go outside of instructor-defined outcomes. I use SBG rather than ungrading in my large (200+) classes, but there are always some students for whom SBG *still* does not lead to "fair" outcomes. Your comment makes me think about whether I could offer grade conferences near the end of term to open up space for students like this to "show it" on their own terms.
The "rub" is always the reality of the students for whom the structure just doesn't work the way it should. While we can always average the grades of students in a class, there are no "average" students. Each is unique in terms of background, how they work, how quickly they grasp a concept, etc. We have to use systems that allow for each student, not just those who fell in the range of "average".
Thanks for this! I do try to honor learning that goes beyond the official course outcomes, but I think I could do a better job of making that explicit to the students. It's a tough balance between giving them a framework to think about their learning and also encouraging them to move beyond that framework. One question I find really helpful here is "What's one thing you learned in this class that surprised you?" https://emilypittsdonahoe.substack.com/p/fighting-the-end-of-semester-blues
Thank you for this. I found the last part especially interesting, because what you describe doing on the last day of class is something that I've taken to doing on the first day of class, but with a bit of a twist. (For context, I teach writing at a technical community college.)
After welcoming everyone and going around the room for a first round of introductions, I explain that the primary purpose of our class is to develop our ability to use writing as a path of meaningful learning. Then I ask students what meaningfully learning would look like to them and we map out their responses on the board. Common themes that typically emerge include:
- Personal growth
- Developing a deep understanding
- Being able to connect with what you're learning
- Being able to put what you're learning into practice
- Being able to teach what you learn
- Having choice/freedom
- Having a teacher who cares about their learning
- Not being overly rushed or scattered
- Not being overly pressured or judged
While there's always variation within the group, there tends to be a pretty strong core of shared values and students will frequently speak up to affirm what others have said.
My next step is to explain how the course is designed to help us put that vision into practice, including keeping the focus on learning over grading. (Happy to provide more details if anyone is interested.) I've been interested, and heartened, to see that most of my students are really ready for this, and I feel like it's become a really positive way for us to start the semester.
What a great activity! I'll have to try something like this...